Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Monday, April 15th, 2019 . I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we’ll be discussing sanctuary cities

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about Idaho lowering the age for concealed carry to 18.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs a brother has to shoot his brother..

Grant: I’m Grant Gallagher, and we have news about New York City trying to moot a SCOTUS case, so climb aboard

Gary :Strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 491 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Bill Frady and I talked about Self-Defense Gun Stories.  That was on his Lock and Load Radio program. ???and I recorded another Episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

John – I was a guest on Coffee with Craig discussing the CT Supreme Court decision saying the lawsuit by some Newtown parents can go ahead. Their goal is to treat firearms litigation like tobacco litigation – not that there is a constitutional right to a cigarette. Fortunately, Remington has announced they will appeal.  I spent this past weekend playing grandpa while their parents left on a trip. Aria hit one year old and now crawls as the speed of light. Or so it seems.



Grant – just the usual classes these last couple of weeks. THis weekend we ran our class for the FL and AZ out-of-state CCW permits. We have begun using the USCCA curriculum in these classes and it appears to be very well received. Clients particularly liked the part that they dubbed “Jail, or no jail?”


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Grant – over the summer, we are running classes for Instructor candidates for the USCCA and the NRA, so if you’re interested about learning more about these instructor programs, please email me at Grant-at-scotshot-dot-com.

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News

POLITE SOCIETY NEWS, April 15th 2019

Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “”




Over the past few weeks, a decision has slowly been winding up in Idaho, about whether the age to carry a concealed firearm without a permit should be lowered from 21 to 18.

Well, last week, Idaho governor Brad Little signed this into law, and now anyone over 18 has full rights to the Gem State’s Constitutional Carry law. This removed contradictions between what was legal in cities and towns, and the surrounding countryside.

It also prevents otherwise law abiding gun owners from being caught inadvertently breaking the law.

Gun Owners of America Executive Director Erich Pratt was very pleased. He said, “We are very pleased to see Idaho expand permitless carry to its 18-20-year old adults, so they can Constitutionally-conceal carry throughout all of Idaho”, and he continued, “This legislation simplifies Idaho’s carry laws and expands freedom to all adults in the Gem State.”

The law takes effect on July 1st. It’s actually a small, but important change that is largely symbolic, since Idaho has been Constitutional Carry for almost 100 years with restrictions that people tended to ignore most of the time. Slowly but surely the Idaho State gun owners organization, the Idaho Second Amendment Alliance, built the support they needed to have these restrictions taken away. Now Idaho is a true, free state.


Rob- Adults who can get married, buy a home, and have children can also protect them.

John – This contrasts with other states which treat those under 21 as children. Or permanent adolescents.

Gary- We see why democrats don’t want Idahoans vote to count for President.

Amy – If you are old enough to serve your country and handle firearms, you should be able to own firearms and train with them at home.

Grant – NIH says that anyone under 21 is a child, and don’t dems want 16 yr olds to vote?



John – New York wants to make it illegal for children under 16 to touch a gun.

New York governor Andrew Cuomo will outlaw all youth shooting activities, competitions and training for individuals younger than 16 who are not hunting. The new law prohibits the owner of a firearm from knowingly allowing any person younger than 16 to have access to their firearms unless the firearm is in their “immediate possession or control” when outside of the home, unless said youth has a hunting license and is hunting. This is mandatory storage carried to extreme.

The only way for a loaded firearm to be in the “immediate possession or control” of the owner is to be within arm’s reach at all times. There are no exemptions for high school trap, 4H, Boy Scouts or, for that matter, even the shooting portion of the hunter safety program or NRA firearm training program.

There also is no exemption for adult competition shooters who leave their firearm in the gun rack unlocked while waiting for their match if there are any youths at the event either as competitors or spectators.

No one under 16 allowed in gun shops, sporting competitions, sporting goods stores museums, or most homes,

Grant – this is just another means to kill an upcoming generation of shooters and gun owners

Gary- This does not sound like gun safety regulation.

Amy – Another example of government overreach in New York in regards to firearms disguised as “gun safety”


John – This is a case of New York City values versus the rest of the state. The rural upstate has much different attitudes towards guns.

Amy – Agreed because there are so many examples of minors under 16 handling firearms safety. Hunting, competitive shooting, high school trap, all the examples mentioned in the article.


Paul – I have helped





It was a small, but perfectly formed injunction against another gun grab law in California. A canny judge, Roger Benitez,  issued a stay against the California 10-round magazine law. Then in the space of a few days, under pressure that it may be taken to a 9th circuit en banc panel and overturned,  he repealed his own stay with one brilliant move.. his repeal would take place three days later.

This made a window of one week (March 29 thru April 5th) where normal capacity magazines were once again legal to purchase in California and boy, did Californians take up the offer.

In that one short week, it is estimated that over a million magazines were shipped legally to the state. Some retailers websites were crashed by the orders. California Rifle and Pistol Association has named it “Freedom Week”.

Chuck Michel, a lawyer for the NRA and president of the CRPA said that there had been a clear pent-up demand for these magazines, and emphasized that they should not be referred to as “high capacity”. (EDIT: Use second time Amy said this sentence. 20 years, not 100 years): He added that “.. hundreds of thousands of gun owners bought probably more than a million of these self-defense tools, that have been unavailable for almost 20 years.”

Supporters of the law have been cringing at how a 20 year ban was undone in just a week. Gun grabber Josh Horowitz said that mass shooters prefer these magazines – and as usual betraying the ignorance so typical of the gun ban crowd.


John – Josh Horwitz has moved from calling gun owners insurrectionists to mass shooters. During the Obama Admin that was his favorite epithet for us.

Paul – This should take care of the common use 

I do NOT know how this ‘magician’ keeps coming in – i stupidly made a joke about it, but I apologize, Amy – my bad editing

You are the magic man Grant!

I should have read it! LOL Hopefully Susan/Paul have magician editing skills!




As many of us know, New York City has what may be the most egregious handgun laws. Even once you get a permit to have a handgun, you cannot take it out of the city, even to other parts of the state.

This covers other property that one might have, going to a competition or simply traveling to a gun range to shoot. The city was taken to court and after the usual drawn out to-ings and fro-ings, the Supreme Court agreed to hear the case, in the October 2019 session.

Now, fearing that the city will lose and set a precedent that other states will have to follow, the city is proposing to grant every one of the plaintiffs requests, rendering the SCOTUS case moot. The NYC Police Department have proposed a rule change and sent it out for public review. The full change would allow legal NYC gun owners to take their handguns to: another premises or residence, a shooting range anywhere outside NYC, or a shooting competition anywhere outside NYC.

Lawyers for the City have asked SCOTUS to drop the case, should the new rule come into effect, which of course, it will.

A spokesman for the NRA said, “This is nothing more than a naked attempt by New York City to resist Supreme Court review of its policies. The City of New York did not respect its citizens’ Second Amendment rights before the Supreme Court granted review in this case and it will not respect them going forward. We are confident that the Court will reject New York’s desperate attempt to avoid review of its blatantly unconstitutional laws.”

This is one to watch.

John – I wonder which of the gun control bigwigs got to the city. My bet it was former Mayor Bloomberg.

15 minutes in. Let’s roll quickly




Gary- Human rights include people in public housing.

A federal judge nullified a ban imposed by the housing authority in  East St. Louis, Illinois. Law abiding residents in public housing may again own firearms. The judge ruled that the city ordinance violated the plaintiff’s rights under the Second and Fourteenth amendments due to a requirement that no firearms be possessed on the property as a condition of lease.

The lawsuit was brought by the second amendment foundation. SAF Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb said. “It is simply unacceptable for citizens living in public housing to be denied their basic right to have a firearm for personal protection, and in this case, it was unconscionable. This situation was made even more outrageous considering what has happened to Ms. Doe while living at her home.

The plaintiff was “hiding from a violent domestic abuser.” She had been sexually assaulted in the public housing building. She also had to call the police after there were violent gun fights in her building.

John – Having driven past East St. Louis many a time, I can assure you that anyone resident there NEEDS the ability to protect themselves. It is a 3rd world city on the banks of the Mississippi. Sadly, at one time, it was an All American city.

Paul – Didn’t this happen in Delaware several years ago?

Grant – another episode where poorer people are robbed of their constitutional rights by elitists on the left


Gun Quotes


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).


3- Show Rant – How about you let them sit on YOUR porch for a while?

I have always thought that levels of government should deal with other levels of government and international governments just as you or I would deal with another person. With respect, but not allow ourselves to be victimized.

This applies to every level of government and I am proud to see that my viewpoint is finally being brought to the oval office. 

Let’s start a few months ago. The white house issued a policy that all persons seeking asylum in the US at the southern border would be required to stay in Mexico while their case sorted its way through the legal system. This can take 180 days or more, and 78 percent of those who sought asylum in the fiscal year 2016 were denied. 

Prior to the change in policy, an illegal immigrant would either jump the fence and if caught would try to claim asylum and then get released awaiting court proceedings or come straight to a border checkpoint and ask for asylum with the same thing happening.  After being released into the US, they quickly disappear in our free society and unless they break the law are never heard from again.

So now The White House says that if you want asylum, you must wait in Mexico while you go through the process and, as seems to be all too common recently, a federal judge says “Nope, you can’t do that” and about a week ago placed a stay on the policy.

This, of course, is greeted by cheering from the Open Borders Left. 

So let me take a sidestep here. Let’s look at what you or I would do on a personal level. You own your own home, what would you do if strangers came to sit on your porch? Usually, these strangers are okay, but every once in a great while there is trouble, and sometimes real damage occurs.

You try to stop them, especially the troublemakers. Now, you have a REALLY nosy neighbor who thinks that the strangers are just fine and you should keep letting them on your porch.  Were that me, and no law enforcement to settle the dispute (after all we are drawing a parallel to individual and government reactions and all LE is part of a government of some variety or another) I would show the strangers my nosy neighbors house and let them know that THAT particular neighbor not only wants them there but that they have a personal policy that no matter what damages happen that they won’t kick strangers out.

This is EXACTLY what president Trump is doing now. Several individual cities and some states have declared themselves “sanctuary” jurisdictions for illegal immigration. These governments have fought Trump every step of the way in trying to stem the tide of illegal immigration. Today (April 15th) President Trump tweeted that the policy that had been hinted at for about a week would indeed come to fruition. All illegal aliens seeking asylum who could not be detained would be given to sanctuary cities and states.

Now let’s be realistic. Once released into these “sanctuary” jurisdictions, illegals will likely disappear and there is nothing keeping them there. However, this is an EPIC win for the President. He is in a very real sense saying, “If you like the troublemakers so much, let them sit on YOUR porch for a while”!

Amy – Too much to type, but I will speak my piece on this from my perspective on my entire (extended) family being legal immigrants,

Grant – I agree with Amy. Nowhere in any of this do we hear anything about those people who immigrate to the USA legally. Speaking as a legal immigrant – we arrived here in 2001 – in that time we have had to pay out-of state fees to have our kids attend the NJ State university as well as pay thousands of dollars to go through the system to get our green cards. When Governor Murphy allocates my tax dollars to pay for court fees for illegals, and they get free tuition, well that doesn’t sit well with me at all. The cynical ploys we see from the Democrats are all about political power in congress – not merely votes, but seats in the house of representatives – why else are they against the citizenship question on the forthcoming census?


4- Interview 2

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

John- Houston, Texas

The father of four got back home and walked up to his front door.  Little did he realize, there were 3 thugs waiting for him in the bushes.  They ambushed him and pistol whipped him, and forced him to open the door.

Waiting at home were two of the family’s daughters.  They heard the commotion and hid in a closet. They also were able to hit a panic alarm.

The 3 home intruders forced the father to disable the alarm.  He couldn’t get it to stay disabled though. Every time he did, his daughters hit the panic button again.

This unfortunately alerted the 3 that there were others in the house.  They were eventually able to find the 20 and 15 year old girls.

As the home invasion progressed, a son and his mother arrived home in separate vehicles.  Also with the mother was another child.

The son noticed that something at the home was not right and was able to sneak into the house and retrieve his pistol.  He was able to flush the invaders out of the house and shot at them as they left. One of the robbers who was carrying a pistol was shot in the head.

A neighbor hear the shots and came to provide medical assistance to the downed criminal.  This was in vain and the wound proved to be fatal.

The other two suspects jumped on the hood of the mother’s car while she and her child remained inside it.  She was able to drive away and found a police officer at a nearby Whataburger.

The two remaining suspects remain at large after driving from the scene in the father’s silver Toyota Sienna minivan.


Gary- Shasta County, California

Nobody wants to harm a family member but when threatened with grave bodily harm, you might have to.

Sheriff’s deputies were dispatched for reports of a family disturbance and shots fired.

They found 35 year old Joshua suffering from several gunshot wounds to his torso. He was transported to a local hospital and was in critical condition.

He had threatened his mother earlier and fired a round without hitting any family members.

He then threatened his brother, Jeffrey, in the garage with the gun.  Jeffrey was also armed and, fearing for his life, fired several shots at his brother and hit him in the chest.

Jeffrey was not arrested as deputies said it appeared as he was acting in self-defense.

Criminal charges against the aggressor brother are being sought in the investigation.

John – So sad.

Amy – Agree. Questionable dysfunction within the family.

Amy- San Antonio, Texas

It was 3:30 AM when the homeowner heard a noise outside.  He went to investigate and was armed.

The homeowner found a man inside his pickup which was parked in the driveway.  As he confronted the would-be car thief, the man got out of the truck and lunged at the homeowner.  The homeowner fired one time in response. His aim was true. He then called 911.

The wounded suspect ran from the home.

Police said that it appeared he was hit, because they found a blood trail to follow throughout the neighborhood.  Police even launched their helicopter to search the neighborhood. Not finding him, they believe he got into a vehicle at some point.

Officers were checking local hospitals for any gunshot victims.

Based on the homeowner’s account, he has not been arrested and charges have not been pursued.  The investigation continues. Texas allows you to protect your property.


Grant – Centennial, Colorado

Like the headline read, “It’s better to be fired from a job than to be carried by six.”

Law enforcement reported that at 4:25 AM, a 14 year old entered a Shell Gas station and stuck a gun in the face of the 57 year old clerk.  Surveillance video showed the incident. Moments after having the gun stuck in his face, the clerk took out his own gun and fired one shot.  His shot hit the robber in the stomach.

The clerk had a conceal carry permit.

Suncor, the company that owns the Shell station and store, has a “no guns” policy for employees.

“Although this may have played out in a way that was self-defense, Suncor may view it as a bad idea to have employees generally armed, because the next person might misread a situation and shoot a customer,” said University of Denver law professor, John Campbell.

“We might have a situation that worked out in a way where  the clerk would say ‘well I’m alive’ and Shell says ‘Yes, you are, but we can’t just allow this sort of breach of our policy,’ so I’m not sure there’s a moral right in this,” said Campbell.

The boy has been charged with 5 counts of Attempted Aggravated Robbery with Intent to Kill or Maim.  The clerk has not been charged because the video shows self-defense, but nonetheless, the 57 year old is looking for a new job, and the store has a help-wanted sign hung in the window.Gas station clerk fired for shooting armed robber: Problem Solvers Investigation

Paul –



Rob- Sioux City, Iowa

A serial home intruder found that some homeowners do not take to having their home broken into.  The intruder jumped out a second floor window of a home at 1216 25th Street. The window glass cut him and he left a blood trail down alleys and then broke into 1321 24th Street.  The time was 8:30 AM.

The male homeowner was armed and a struggle ensued.

The homeowner was able to shoot once and the suspect was wounded.  He died several hours later at a Sioux City hospital.

The homeowner has not been charged.  Iowa has adopted both stand-your-ground and castle doctrine laws.

A male resident at the first home did sustain injuries with the intruder.

John – Burlington, North Carolina

Burlington Police reported to news agencies that a 31 year old mother and her 10 year old son were asleep early Wednesday morning when she was woken up by the sounds of someone attempting to break in to their home.

She confronted the burglar with a pistol.  He was also armed and opened fire. She returned fire and that caused the suspect to exit through the windows he used to break in.  Police arrived just before 4 AM.

It was not clear of the intruder was injured and no arrested had been made.

The woman will not face charges and her son was not injured.


Amy – You never know if the intruder will be armed. This is why you need to have a home defense plan if you are buying a gun.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

In the last episode, we talked about politicians who said that modern guns are extraordinarily lethal.

One message came in from Matt of the Geeks Gadgets and Gun Podcast

FYI the Brown Bess muskets used in the revolutionary war were about 72-73 caliber typically the balls fired were 69 caliber due to fouling so they could continue firing after several rounds. The guns were also smooth bores so it was not uncommon to load buck shot with a 69 cal ball on top to give a shotgun like effect. Today’s 12ga shotguns are basically the same bore size

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Politicians and the news media collected headlines from around the world and fed us stories of “gun violence” and “mass murder”. We’re outraged when we see video of their bloody bodies. Almost universally, these stories then call for disarming honest citizens who haven’t hurt anyone. The journalists never tell us the rest of the story so we can see these atrocities in perspective.

The news media should come with warning labels!

Caution- Contents under emotional pressure.

The following stories are deliberately distorted

to manipulate your emotions and distort your thinking.

Some news sources will tell us the truth. Those authors are the ones you should trust. As with all our news, we have to scrub it thoroughly before we consume it. Trust but verify.

Paul –

My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

I have a number of posts up since we last week. First, I am disappointed that neither Adam Kraut nor Anthony Colandro were elected to the NRA BOD. Our friend Willes Lee did make it.  As you would expect, celebrities who don’t attend meetings led the ticket. If you are attending the NRA AM you have a chance to vote for Adam for the 76th Director. Second, Remington plans to appeal the Connecticut Sup Ct verdict. Finally, NYC blinked and this is unfortunate as it was a chance for the SCOTUS to rule on firearms outside the home. If it goes as expected, NYS Rifle and Pistol v City of NY will be mooted and dismissed.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com. You can now also see some of my posts up at 2ANews dot US.

Paul – I want to go back to Rob’s blog post for a second. I think that this may make a good discussion. What news sources do you trust?

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Amy: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

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