Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on April 8th. 2019, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Gina Roberts about Gun Owners of San Diego and their new efforts to train people who are at physical risk of attack.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about non-impact on homicide rates of gun and mag bans.

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg, and we’ll hear about Oregonians turning out in full force to protest anti-gun laws.

Amy: I’m Amy Dillon and we will look at a renewal of a bill that expands the definition of “emotional distress”

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in DGUs we’ll say it again, don’t mess with the old guy.. so climb aboard

Grant: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 490 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Bill Frady and I talked about Self-Defense Gun Stories.  That was on his Lock and Load Radio program and I recorded another Episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories.

John – Since the last show, I must admit, I haven’t done much with guns. I did successfully reassemble the innards of my Mossberg 500 – thank you YouTube – and found out that the screws for the picatinny rail were too large for my earlier model. I’m waiting to receive new smaller screws so that I can mount the red dot.


Amy –  I just moved to Wilmington, North Carolina from South Carolina. I already found my local shooting ranges, and went shooting. I took my NC Concealed Carry Class and am in the process of obtaining my NC CCW Instructor certification and waiting for my permit. I will be starting to teach some classes at Montgomery College in Troy, NC this Summer and will be writing some articles for I am headed to Indy for NRA Show April 26th-28th, where I will be at the 5.11 Tactical booth and also in the Concealed Carry Fashion Show Saturday night.

Rob- Amy, isn’t it interesting that you can carry with your old permit.. Until you get your new drivers license?

John – Welcome to the Tar Heel State! BTW my dad was born in Troy and I still have cousins there.

Paul – Under no circumstances are you allowed to root for Duke

Tracy – Last week, Becky Dolgener and I taught two ladies’ only classes at KR Training. We had eight ladies basic pistol skills 1 and 6 for basic pistol skills 2. The ladies were troopers and shot in less-than-ideal circumstances. We’re hoping to teach this twice a year going forward. This weekend I’ll be at the annual A Girl and A Gun National Conference, where I’ll be teaching as a representative of the Massad Ayoob group, teaching Persuader (Kubotan), and our own John Edeen will be my lovely assistant instructor.

Paul – You said a cold front came through, how cold was the cold front?

Grant  – is girl and a gun a parallel org to The Well Armed Woman?

Grant – I taught a great private class for an extended family that provided an introduction to Handgun *and* to TASER. These classes are always fun to do because they are a bit different from the norm. People just *love* TASER! The conductive targets they provide are a lot of fun! On a personal note, our younger son just had his 30th Birthday!

Paul/Susan carried every day (disarmament dance) and really working hard on the live NRA broadcast at the ACLDN booth. 

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Tracy – Lee Weems will be at KR Training June 29-30 teaching social levergun/shotgun manipulations and deliberate speed pistol. I’ll be teaching a MAG-20 live fire on September 7-8. Massad Ayoob, himself, will be at KR Training the following weekend, September 14-15, teaching the MAG-20 classroom. For more information, please visit

Grant – we have all of our upcoming classes at www dot scotshot dot com. Come join us for USCCA Instructor, and NRA Pistol and Rifle Instructor. We also have National Train a Teacher Day on July 20th, so if you’re a trainer and want to offer a class, or a teacher/or other K1-12 staff, or a girl or boy scout leader, or a Sunday School teacher, then please check out the event Facebook page, here:

Ask listeners to listen to other shows on the network, name at least 2 shows.


2- News


Hi everyone. Please remember to send your comments on the news to “”




A study published in the scientific literature recently has concluded what gun owners have always known – banning so-called “assault weapons”, and limiting magazine capacity, does not affect the homicide rate.

The study was headed by Professor Michael Spiegel and Boston University, together with prominent Harvard University gun control advocate, David Hemenway. Their study, which you can read from the link in the show notes, determined that those gun control measures most favored by Democrat politicians are not effective measures to lower homicide rates.

Speigel stated, “Laws regulating the sale of assault weapons are unlikely to have a large impact on homicide rates, because these weapons are used in only a very small proportion of homicides. The vast majority of firearm homicides in the United States are committed with handguns.”

Spiegel also showed that household gun ownership was not associated with homicide *or* suicide rates, which of course runs counter to what we always hear, that firearms in the home increase risk.

So all of that sounds great, right? It supports what we have always said… Well, let’s hold on just a minute and ask of they found anything that *does* decrease homicide and/or suicide rates?

The purpose of the study was to analyze the effect of 10 different firearm laws and total Homicide and suicide rates across all 50 states, in the years between 1991 and 2016. They looked at 1222 homicides and 1300 suicides. We just heard what they did *not* find, what about things they *did* find.

In their “Key Results” section, they say:

   (i)    Universal background checks were associated with a 14.9% reduction in overall     homicides (range 5.2 – 23.6%);

   (ii)    “Shall Issue” ccw laws were associated with a 9% *increase* in homicides (range     1.1-17.4%)

Further, in an interview about the study, Speigel said the the three most important things to reduce (airquotes) “gun violence” are: universal background checks, prohibition of gun ownership by anyone with a felony or misdemeanor history of violence and red flag laws.

So, while there are strong positives in this study, there are serious negatives too – it promotes the introduction of a mechanism that culls due process for otherwise law abiding Americans.

Rob- That study contradicts other studies I’ve seen.


John – Are the homicides associated with CCWs murders or are they justified self-defense homicides?

Grant- the thing that is most interesting is that firearms rights advocates are pushing this study because of its negativity on gun and magazine bans – it’s clear to see how this will be spun.

Paul – Universal background checks can never work even with a registry. All it takes is a bad guy with a record to ask his girlfriend who doesn’t have a record to buy the gun. Until prosecutors charge AND publicize the charges of straw purchasers bad guys will continue to get guns from gun stores. Let’s also remember that purchases from gun stores aren’t the major way that criminals get guns.





Pennsylvania State Law has long prohibited municipalities from regulating the ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition. However, this has not stopped the all-democrat city council from passing a package of three anti-gunrights laws by 6-to-3, and sending them to the Mayor, and so setting up a direct and open challenge to State Law.

Mayor Bill Peduto seems keen to sign them into law. The State Governor, Democrat Tom Wolf, is completely behind the Mayor. The laws were proposed and voted upon, following the murders at a city synagogue  in 2018.

Councilman Corey O’Connor, who led the bills, said that he was “..happy to take a stand,” commenting that people are starting to become more open to some sort of gun control. The laws provide for bans on AR-15s, red-flag confiscations and magazine capacity restrictions.. all the usual knee-jerk stuff, brought into play by people who generally, are unfamiliar with firearms.

Pro-gun advocates are preparing suits to block the laws and criminal complaints for abuse of office and other charges.

This isn’t the first time Pittsburgh has tried to subvert the State Preemption Laws.  In 1993 they tried to enforce an assault weapons ban, but this was almost immediately quashed by the State Legislature and Supreme Court.

Nonetheless, a representative of the Bloomberg Red-Shirts said, “They can’t stand around and wait…”, praising the city council, while a local gun owner said, “My guns are not hurting anyone… you just want to control people and take their rights away.”

Rob- Philadelphia is Pennsylvania’s Chicago.





Leftist gun grabbers in the Oregon Legislature got it handed to them recently.

A small Bill, SB 978, was originally presented to allow the State Police to conduct a study of illegal gun transfers. It was less than 1/2 a page long. Soon, it magically acquired forty-four pages of amendments.

These included: a minimum age for firearm and ammunition sales, that could be 21 (and includes components, spares accessories etc); mandatory use of firearms locks and a humungous list of things that took up 44 pages of vaguely-defined restrictions and new illegalities.

Oregon Firearms Federation put out a call for members to come to the hearing and they did that in droves. Hundreds of them showed up. This was very clear from the sheet of people who requested to testify. There were three pages of anti gunners and demanding mommies and a whopping fourteen pages from the pro-gun side.

The local newspaper  described the scene: Onlookers and testifiers lined up well in advance of the hearings for the Senate in the morning and the House in the afternoon. Two additional rooms were needed. When these were filled, people gathered round televisions outside the chambers, where chairs had been set up.

A second session on the bill is scheduled for April 8th, today.

Rob- you must be present to win.

John – I wish more were like Illinois with witness slips.







The Violence Against Women Act, which expired back in February, was recently renewed in the House of Representatives and sent forward to the US Senate. However, there is a twist. The Bill is not only renewed, it is expanded to advance the Democrat anti-gun agenda.

There was bipartisan support to renew the Bill in February, in its then current form. However, it was allowed to lapse so that new anti-gun language could be inserted. This language is being used to expand the numbers of people that are vulnerable to having their 2nd amendment rights withdrawn, for less and less serious crimes.

Now, action can be taken against people who have non-violent misdemeanor convictions (which often do not require trial by a jury) such as  “stalking” or “emotional distress”. In addition, the legislation is retrospective, meaning that although the bill passed out of the house in 2019, convictions of the expanded set of crimes and misdemeanors before that, would be included. So in principle, someone could have their firearms withdrawn for something that happened 2, 5 or even 10 years ago.

The general trend is easy to see. The Dems are creating more and more classes of people who are prohibited from exercising their rights under the Second Amendment;  and less and less serious offenses are being used to take Second Amendment rights from people.

Paul – This has not yet been assigned a committee in the Senate. It’s likely to go to the judiciary committee and die there. Remember that a republican controlled house repealed obamacare numerous times and the senate

John – There are too many Federal laws that really have no constitutional basis. The Commerce Clause is probably the basis.

Rob- I’m proud to work with my fellow criminals, since everyone on this show has caused emotional distress.



Rob- Gun Quotes

“Make no mistake about it. Gun control is not about crook control. It’s about America control. “Professor Derrick Grayson


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Gina Roberts.


3- Interview 1 – Gina Roberts

Gina is a dedicated Second Amendment Advocate, a tactical and competitive shooter, and an expert in firearms and ammunition manufacture. She has competed Nationally and Internationally using rifle, pistol, shotgun, .50 Caliber Rifle, High Power Rifle, Precision

rifle, and three gun. She is an instructor at the largest firearms instruction institute in the world and works to train women and marginalized groups in her local community. 

She is active in Local, State and National politics, and is on her local Republican Central Committee and is President of her local Log Cabin Republican group, the LGBT wing of the GOP, and proudly represents women and the LGBT community with the DC Project.  She is a founding board member of San Diego County Gun Owners PAC.

4- Interview 2

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Grant – Doo-Kane, Pennsylvania

We will repeat it again, in case you haven’t been paying attention.  Don’t mess with the old guy.

73 year old Crosby Marshall was driving for a ride share when he picked up a 33 year old man and a female passenger.  He had a feeling something was wrong when he was directed down an alley then told to stop his SUV suddenly.

“I turned around when he said he was going to rob me, then he hit me with the gun,” Marshall said.

The impact left Marshall bleeding.  He managed to get out of the car. The female passenger ran from the scene but the man stayed and pointed his gun at him.

“I was backed in a corner,” said Marshall.  That is when Marshall fired his defensive handgun three times.  The robber / assailant was killed by Marshall’s shots.

Marshall has a permit to carry and is not charged.

“I just had to do what I had to do,” said Marshall. “I’m just happy to be here.”


John – It goes to show the importance of practicing your drawl


Tracy -Maricopa, Arizona

The Maricopa Police Department received a call around 7 PM of a man entering a residence.  That man was seen wandering around the Cobblestone Farms neighborhood where he lives. He was telling people that others were out to kill him.

He walked into a neighbor’s house and was told to leave immediately.  Next, he walked to another house and entered through an unlocked side door.  He took a can of food and went into the home’s garage and threw the can through a window.  Then exited the house through that window, cutting his leg.

His leg bleeding from the glass in the window, he approached a home on the same road and tried to gain entry through a sliding glass door.  The door was locked. He saw the homeowner sitting in the living room and started pounding on the glass door and yelling to be let in because people were trying to kill him.

The man, who was in his 60’s, yelled at him to go away, then ran to the bedroom to grab a gun.  While he was gone from the living room, the man broke through the door and entered the home. The man confronted him and shot him in the arm then retreated to a bathroom and called 911.

The man, now bleeding from the gunshot wound in the arm and the cuts on this leg, went to the garage and lifted the door enough to crawl under.  The residents of the first home found him and pinned him down until police arrived.

He was transported for treatment of his wounds and was arrested.  He did appear to be impaired but blood tests had not come back to state what substance was causing the impairment.

Grant – not to judge, but this does sound like the intruder may not have been in full control

Paul –

John – San Antonio, Texas

A woman reported to deputies that around midnight, he heard someone trying to break in through the front door of her home.

She confronted a 44 year old man and began fighting with him.  The intruder got past her and went to the bedroom where her husband was located.  The two men started fighting which resulted in her husband shooting the attacker.

A short time later, deputies were called to a nearby home where a man claimed to having been shot by an unknown person.  They were able to connect him with the home invasion.

He is now facing charges for the home invasion.

Amy – Spokane, Washington

In the south hill area of Spokane, people look out for each other.

John Hoffman was returning home from work when he noticed a suspicious person in this neighborhood.  He made eye contact with the person, just trying to make him think that someone was watching him. He thought it would make the man to keep on walking.

He turned his van around and saw the 26 year old man reaching for a package on his neighbor’s porch.

When he confronted the package thief, the thief claimed to know the people inside the home.

Hoffman told him, “No, you’re going to wait right here.  I’m going to call police and we’ll figure this out.”

That’s when the thief decided it was time to leave.

Hoffman grabbed him and threw him to the ground.  The suspect tried to create some chaos by yelling, “Help, He’s coming after me!”

While the two were scuffling, the criminal reached for his pocket.  He turned on Hoffman and pulled a knife.

Little did the knife wielding thug know but Hoffman had something in his pocket in the form of a .38 caliber pocket pistol.

The thief decided bringing a knife to a gun fight was not the best thing and ran from the scene.

The man was identified from the vehicles interior camera.  He had been arrested a few months earlier for vehicle prowling.

“Either way we’re paying for it I guess,” Hoffman said. “Either they are in the system and we’re paying for it, or they’re out here stealing packages and we’re paying for it.”

The man had ditched his knife and eventually ran off. Spokane police arrested him shortly after.

He was booked for assault and attempted theft.

Paul – WE ARE NOT THE POLICE- It can be very dangerous to confront criminals

Rob- In Seattle, the police are not the police. This criminal will be prosecuted for neither theft 

Paul – Albuquerque, New Mexico

Crime does not pay.  And for one robber, it also put him into the hospital.

The 27 year old robber walked into an Albuquerque Little Caesar’s wearing a mask and orange gloves.  He pulled out a gun, demanded money and left with $9. He didn’t get far.

A Little Caesar employee pursued the robber outside and shot him several times.  He hit him once. He still had his apron on.

The employee told deputies he was scared for his life and didn’t want him to try and hurt someone as he ran away.

After being shot, he fell to the ground screaming for help and an identified person assisted him into a waiting vehicle.  The $9 was left laying on the ground. The driver dropped the injured criminal at a nearby Motel 6. That was where police found him.

He had the same clothes on as during the robbery but claimed that he had been shot outside the motel.

However, there was not crime scene and not reports of gunfire nearby.  He could not be questioned further because he was headed into the OR.

The employee was not identified and the complaint does not say where he got the gun or if he is still employed by the store.  Little Caesars would not comment on the story. The story didn’t identify if this is a company owned store or a franchise store.

Grant – ok where did the other bullets go? SEveral minus one equals several

Paul – was it worth it for $9

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion


Rob- Hi all,

Love the podcast and have been listening for several years now.

You were talking about FOID cards and husbands and wives having cards in case one passes away, the other isn’t obligated to turn over the guns within the mandated ten days after the death.  In the socialist republic of NY, (not NYC) we don’t have the FOID cards, but we are required to have a permit and the serial numbers are recorded. We also have the ten day or two week requirement to turn in pistols after the gun owner passes away.  We do have the option to co-register the pistols on another persons permit, either a spouse, relative to friend.

You also talked about taking back the narrative. Instead of assault rifles, we should refer to them as modern sporting rifles. Which many podcast do.  But the other one that we need to change is “gun violence.” We all know that the gun is just an inanimate object and that it’s the person who commits the evil against others.  So I would suggest that it be referred to as “human violence.”

Thanks, and keep up the good work!


Rob- What about minor children?

John – I answered a reporter from Huffington Post on this. I objected to term Gun Violence. I said was the criminal misuse of a firearm.

Grant – The point about narrative control is also a very good one – our opposition is very good at being on message, while those on our side are not, and often will contradict one another.

Paul – This was covered on the last show, but re-read here so those who weren’t on that show are able to comment.


Hello all,

Something struck me with the recent amount of states giving their citizens what they should already have in constitutional carry. My question is, do they lose the right to carry in states that don’t have that? I know there was a change for Ohio residents when the governor allowed active military members under 21 to get their concealed carry license for pistol last year. or maybe without a background check. I don’t remember the details. The result was I think we lost some reciprocity with some states for our CHL holders. I can look for more details about our state and that issue, but my main question is the same.



John- I think it depends on the state and how they handle reciprocity. They may have a CCW from a Utah or FL.

Rob- Yes, so many states are looking for an excuse. For some it is an excuse to recognize rights, and for some it is an excuse to narrow their reciprocity.


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I’m writing an article about truth in advertising. It isn’t the NRA that is selling fear, it is the gun-ban advocates. We know the rates of crime and there isn’t an epidemic of criminals misusing guns. The media wants us to believe that honest gun owners are the real threat..and it isn’t true.

My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money.

I’ve only had one post since we last recorded. It is about the failure of the Supreme Court to issue a stay to the bump stock ban rule. I would note that Justices Gorsuch and Thomas would have issued the stay. So, for now, your option is turn it in to BATFE IF you were covered by the stay with the government’s promise to not destroy it until the case is finally finished, destroy it per BATFE instructions, or lose it in a “boating accident”. It is a sad state of affairs when a supposed supporter of the Second Amendment has done more harm than the avowed enemy we had in Obama.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Paul – Published my first post for Federally our gun rights are not threatened for now. My next post is still in the earliest stages, but it will focus on the positive side of gun ownership.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Gina Roberts for joining us today. So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Grant and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Tracy: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

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